Posted by Rachel on: 06.04.2007 /
The fourth in our series of five posters from Tim Nyberg
Shane Claiborne shares his thoughts on Jesus and megachurches in his book The Irresistible Revolution…
In fact, Jesus and his disciples would probably get into trouble in most fancy churches. They’d probably be turning water fountains into wine fountains, inviting kids to swim in baptistries, ripping holes in the roofs when the crippled can’t get in the doors, flipping over the cash registers in the bookstores - at which point a trustee would scold Jesus and ask, “Jesus!?!? What, were you born in a barn?” And Jesus would nod.
Shane makes a great point. But what do YOU think about megachurches?
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Comment by: Doreen
1 06/4/07 1:14 PM | Comment Link |A megachurch is fine if megachurch means “large building.” A megachurch is not fine if it means “large, expensive, lavish building.”
The worst megachurches are those large, expensive, lavish kind where the money is donated by faithful parishioners who are told that this will get them some kind of reward (usually material) from God.
I don’t see giving money to a church building fund as giving money to God. If the new building is modest (not necessarily in size) and does God’s work, then the money is giving money toward God’s work. God doesn’t need money.
poetcomic.blogspot.com
Comment by: Benjamin Ady
2 06/4/07 2:42 PM | Comment Link |Rachel–quite simply, IMNSHO:
No
Still no
Absolutely no
But I’m more interested in this question: Does how we spend our money, and to whom/what we give our money, clearly delineate the nature of the god we worship?
My answer to this one is:
Of course!
What did Jesus say along the lines of “how to give money to *jesus*?
Wasn’t it something like … when you give money–that is–time/help/love/medicine,food/water/shelter/clothing to the sick, imprisoned, hungry, thirsty, naked, homeless: *that* constitutes giving it to Jesus.
What a radical.
And isn’t there something in there from Jesus about spending money to fly 50 to 100 “sorties” (read: “bombing runs”) every day, killing on average one civilian per sortie, in order to free the world from the “evil of terrorism” equalling giving money to god?
Comment by: Julie Clawson
3 06/4/07 10:18 PM | Comment Link |Okay I have serious issues with most of this, but it does raise some questions in me.
is it as wrong to build a large building (and raise money from the congregation) if it is to be used as a blessing to the community (a third place, a food pantry, open gym, free room usage…)?
is expensive necessarily wrong? Building something that is ecologically friendly costs a lot more than a minimum standards building…
And is there a place for art and beauty in the church (or at all for what its worth)? art and music cost money - a lot of money. Are such things wrongs because there may be “better” ways to spend our money?
Comment by: joe
4 06/5/07 5:45 AM | Comment Link |I think it is fairly easy to criticise all makes of churches for excess spending - not least large gold-plated liturgical churches as well as white collar Megachurches (hopefully I have been equally offensive to the widest number of people there..)
And to be honest, I think it all makes the baby Jesus cry.
But there are far far worse things.
A friend is a christian writer. He once wrote a great skit about the ‘greatest weapon’ in the world - which was not the nuclear warhead but the armchair. When we are faced with pain on our TV screens or even in our neighbourhoods, we are ’shaken but not stirred’.
The greatest sin today in the church is not the focus on buildings but the lack of focus on those in need. We would rather occupy our great churches of wealth, we would rather spend time examining our spiritual navels and swapping spiritual soccer cards than actually being the change we profess in the world around us.
Comment by: Helen
5 06/5/07 8:38 AM | Comment Link |I don’t know if I’m allowed to discuss this, because Jesus did say to take the log out of my own eye first. And I don’t go to a mega-church.
Am I or am I not?
(Feel free to help me admit my own consistency by pointing out all the times I’ve ignored this and criticized other people and other groups ;-))
Comment by: April Terry
6 06/5/07 8:54 AM | Comment Link |I think all churches—big, small, house, etc.–are relevant to someone somewhere in some way. They have different purposes and different reasons for being there and different accomplishments to make and different goals.
I think that I would rather see a megachurch than no church at all.
When I go to my convalescent home ministry, I am there for one purpose—to minister to others in Jesus’ name. Ultimately, a megachurch has the same goal.
There are many people who don’t feel good about the megachurch and feel that it is isn’t relevant to them. Those people can go to a house church or to a smaller church. There are also many people who like the services that one can get from a larger church and people who appreciate the missions that large churches support. There are those who have been called out of the church to help those out of the church. Everyone has a purpose in Christ.
Comment by: Doreen
7 06/5/07 4:25 PM | Comment Link |April wrote:
Ah, if only your last sentence were true. I know many churches (some mega) where the goal does not seem to be to minister to each other in Jesus’ name by following Jesus’ way of life. These churches, mega or otherwise, are about accumulating wealth (to the exclusion of helping the poor), obtaining political power (to the exclusion of mentoring our youth), etc.
If a church, mega or otherwise, can have lots of art & gold faucets in the restrooms, luxury coaches to go to the movies, etc., and STILL help the poor, mentoring the youth, etc., more power to that church. I have a problem when a pastor drives a Bentley and children in Sunday school are hungry.
Comment by: Rachel
8 06/5/07 9:44 PM | Comment Link |Helen, I think everyone is both entitled and welcome to share their opinion about megachurches. Personally I’m especially interested in the thoughts of those who don’t identify themselves as church-going Christians. I’m concerned what message our multi-million dollar buildings send to the communities around us. As Casper kept asking Jim as they visited churches, “Is this what Jesus told you guys to do?”
Comment by: Pete S.
9 06/5/07 10:51 PM | Comment Link |I just live in little ole McMinnville. We don’t have any megachurches around here. Our congregation did have a new sanctuary built about 6 years ago and it did cost over a million dollars, but I don’t think we were particularly spending too much money on the building: it’s nice but not lavish, and it’s used quite a bit by various groups, I think…. It should be around for a great while, and thus make the expense worthwhile: we’ll get a good return on it and I hope that God will get a good return on it…
I agree: God doesn’t need our money. God isn’t impressed with money. God just wants us to use our money/resources/time/talent/ abilties/love/food/etc. to helping people, animals, plants, nature, the environment in the most eco-friendly, healthiest, most artisitic and generous way and when we do that we bring God far more glory than pumping money into fancy buildings.
Comment by: Rachel
10 06/6/07 7:52 AM | Comment Link |Well said, Pete!
Comment by: April Terry
11 06/6/07 10:06 AM | Comment Link |Doreen, I hear you when you say that and understand why you feel that way. Even so, I personally feel that I am not in the position to determine whether or not a church is doing God’s will or not. That is ultimately God’s determination. However, I believe that if they are bringing even one person to a closer relationship with Christ then they are in some way accomplishing that goal. I have a hard time believing that any church is not accomplishing that tiny goal.
Comment by: David H
12 06/6/07 9:38 PM | Comment Link |There was a megachurch when Christ was around. It was Herod’s temple. Jesus didn’t condemn the structure, even though it was quite ornate. In fact, he called it his father’s house. Likewise, Jesus didn’t even seem to have a problem with many of those who contributed to or attended that megachurch. His issue was with the religious leaders of the day, the leaders — if you will — of that megachurch.
Perhaps the lesson is that it isn’t about the church, it is about the person attending the church. It is about me. Maybe megachurches don’t help people toward proper Christian values, but in my life I have known people with poor Christian values who attended little churches, as well.
The primary question will always be why, rather than what (kind of church), how (big it is) or where (it is located). It will always be why do you go to church — big or small? It will always be why do you give, not how much? It will always be why (and perhaps who) do you worship? A good church — big or small — will help people to find the proper answers to those questions. And people — because that is all a church is — who are truly seeking the proper ‘why’ will either change the church or leave it.
Comment by: Elaine
13 06/11/07 12:25 PM | Comment Link |What do I think of megachurches? It is an interesting question to consider.
I attended a megachurch for 15 years. I’ve also attended very small churches. I now attend a church that is a network of house churches AND we own a beautiful old Catholic church. This 100+ yr old church is amazing. We are in the midst of trying to figure out how to come up with the money to restore this “Sacred Space” to the community resource it once was. (100 years of prayers)
In 1903, this building cost $65,000 to build. It was a working class neighborhood. $65,000 was a lot of money back then. It has these amazing German made - 22′ stained glass windows and 2 domed stained glass windows. This church building was, and is, a reflection of the craftsman’s love of God.
http://saintelizabeths.blogspot.com/
By 1903 standards, this would have been a megachurch. It was designed to accommodate about 500 people. We now have about 50 people attend on Sundays.
What is different about today’s megachurch versus this one is the “beauty” of the sacred space. While the megachurch I attended was very functional - the lack of “art” made it any building for me. When the people were there, I could feel God’s presence. When the building was empty - not so much.
The megachurches I have been in, generally, don’t invite the artists to worship by sharing their gifts - not the same as gold faucets in the restrooms.
Just as Mary poured the expensive myrrh over Jesus, for me, there is a time and place for extravagance in God’s house.