Posted by Benjamin on: 09.19.2007 /
I recently finished Kathleen Kennedy Townsend’s recent book Failing America’s Faithful: How Today’s Churches are mixing God with Politics and Losing Their Way I found it very readable, and I wanted to share a couple fascinating quotes which she shares. They touch on something my lovely Australian wife, Meg, has said to me countless times since we moved back to the U.S. in 2001. Meg has said innumerable times “People here just don’t understand the concept of the commons.”
In 1968, the British journalist David Frost interviewed my father [Robert Kennedy] and aksed him, “What do you think we are on earth for?” My father answered,
I think you have to break it down to people who have some advantages, and those who are just trying to survive and have their family survive. If you have enough to eat, for instance, I think basically it’s to make a contribution to those who are less well off. “I complained because I had no shoes until I met a man who had no feet.” You can always find someone that has a more difficult time than you do, has suffered more, and has faced some more difficult time one way or the other. If you’ve made some contribution to someone else, to improve their life, and make their life a bit more livable, a little bit more happy, I think that’s what you should be doing.
My father was speaking from his perspective–a Catholic one to be sure, but one that would be easily understandable to those who practiced the Social Gospel.
That same year, when Frost asked then California governor Ronald Reagan the very same question, the answered,Well, of course, the biologist I suppose would say that like all breeds of animals, the basic instinct is to reproduce our kind, but I believe it’s inherent in the concept that created our country–and in the Judeo-Christian religion–that man is for individual fulfillment; for our religion is based on the idea not of any mass movement but of individual salvation. Each man must find his own salvation; I would think that our national purpose in this country–and we have lost sight of it too much in the last three decades–is to be free–to the limit possible with law an order, every man to be what God intended him to be.
From Failing America’s Faithful, by Kathleen Kennedy Townsend
It intrigues me how Kennedy spoke about what could certainly be considered a universal principle, whereas Reagan spoke, based on his own words, about a uniquely “Judeo-Christian” and American perspective/principle. This may perhaps reflect the two men’s differing levels of international/cross-cultural exposure.
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Comment by: Elaine
1 09/19/07 10:10 AM | Comment Link |If ind it fascinating when people share their perspective to the same event - in this case - the same question - and respond so differently.
And Benjamin, your perspective is different from my perspective upon reading the same 2 responses. I do agree that Bobby’s response was more universal and Reagan’s was not. But, I attribute it to different reasons.
Being a baby boomer, my memories of Bobby and Ronald contribute to my filter for reading these comments.
What struck me about these 2 comments were how different they were from each other.
Bobby’s comment was outward focused - serving others. I have more in this world and am therefore called to contribute to the good of the whole.
For me, reading Reagan’s comment
“but I believe it’s inherent in the concept that created our country–and in the Judeo-Christian religion–that man is for individual fulfillment;”
was a reflection of someone who focused on himself and those he viewed “like” him.
Ronald’s comment - while couched in the guise of being Judeo-Christian - seemed to me to focus on the belief each of us are given the same freedom in the US. (which is not really true - ask anyone who has ever been discriminated against) Pull yourself up by your own bootstraps. It was spoken by someone who seems to have forgotten the hardships of being in need of help AND that some where along the way - he was helped.
A cup of water…
Attribution - My husband would say, I have attributed a lot to his statement that is not there. And he would be right.
Comment by: Staci
2 09/19/07 12:29 PM | Comment Link |Oh, greed means I’m trying to be closer to God! Now I get it. (Note: please avoid reading the Bible or Torah to confirm this view.) Well, isn’t that convenient, she said in her best sarcastic SNL church lady voice.
Comment by: benjamin ady
3 09/19/07 7:04 PM | Comment Link |Elaine, Staci,
yeah I kind of agree with both of you. And yet I’m really intrigued as well. Back when I was a right wing republican american christian, and thought ronald reagan was totally awesome, I wasn’t like a super evil person or anything. It was just that my groups stopped getting larger at … well, I guess at my tiny little church, and our tiny little world view. I am profoundly thankful that I’ve had the opportunity to move on to consider myself part of, and at some level responsible as a member of, larger groups–ideally, the human race, I suppose. What I loved about these two quotes from Kathleen is that it seeems to me that they set up a dichotomy which would have allowed me to get a more immediate glimpse of how tiny my worldview was, even back when I was more firmly ensconced in it.
Comment by: Elaine
4 09/20/07 9:12 AM | Comment Link |I may have to read Kathleen’s book. Whatever failings the Kennedy Family has, they have placed a high value on giving back to this country and world.
To respond to your comment Benjamin - I’m not sure at what age I began to question what my church told me as absolute. I remember being confused by how these absolutes could conflict with each other. There was no one around I felt safe to ask these questions.
All of this has reminded me of a book by Martin Buber, “I and Thou”. Martin talks about different levels of thinking of ourselves and others - I-I, I-It, We-We, Us-Them, and the most evolved “I and Thou”. Unfortunately, I keep trying to read this book and have only made it a few chapters before my brain becomes overwhelmed. I need to tough it out because it is worth the read.
Comment by: Aubrie
5 09/20/07 11:13 AM | Comment Link |I also think I need to read this book Elaine. I saw Kathleen interviewed on the Steven Colbert Report, which I’m sure you can only imagine. She did very well. I’m sure you can find it on youtube. I think she makes some very interesting points, but also seems to tell both sides of story as in her father & Ronald Reagan.
I grew up with Predident Reagan being in office. He was so important & revered at my church, as well at home. He was this amazing western actor, good looks, movie star, & hero to the good old USA. He was a christian & therefor knew what was best for the country.
Then I remember talks about the Kennedys & they were “catholic”. You just never knew about them. It’s just strange for me to look back and realize how different I am now. And thank goodness I shook off those views and beliefs like bad germs.
Comment by: benjamin ady
6 09/20/07 8:42 PM | Comment Link |elaine
I’ve heard before that Buber’s I and thou is unbelievably difficult. Way to go to attempt it!
Yeah–it took me a long time to find a place and people where it was safe to ask questions too. I’m so happy to have that now.
Comment by: benjamin ady
7 09/20/07 8:56 PM | Comment Link |Aubrie,
Sounds like we had really similar experiences growing up. The strange thing is (and we don’t really think a lot about this, I guess), lots of people are making the conversion the other way–I’m betting the numbers of people converting republican/democrat, or conservative/liberal, and vice versa, are fairly similar. In fact, I think Scott Mcknight has a new book coming out about conversion out of christianity, or out of fundamentalist evangelicalism, or something like that. should be an interesting read.
Comment by: Rachel
8 09/21/07 5:01 PM | Comment Link |Me too, Benjamin. I read Failing America’s Faithful over the summer and I thought it was excellent. It really gave me a glimpse into how Bobby & Ethel Kennedy’s children were raised and how important their Catholic faith was to their upbringing. I thought it was interesting that RFK Jr grew up with pictures from the life of St. Francis on his bedroom wall and then became an ardent environmentalist. I’ve listened to RFK Jr on the radio and he frequently talks about the need to protect “the commons.”
I completely agree with Meg. Americans have lost the concept of the common good. I think that a large part of that is due to the triumph of political conservatism in the 80s and 90s. Ronald Reagan’s statement above is definitely representative of that belief system. How did laissez-faire capitalism and Social Darwinism come to be associated with “the Judeo-Christian religion”? These concepts seem totally contrary to the teachings of both Judaism and Christianity. How could we not have seen that??
Comment by: Elaine
9 09/23/07 11:10 PM | Comment Link |Rachel - Your question has been working on me.
Which brought me to - Laurence Gonzales, author of Deep Survivor. He spoke last week (Sept.13-15) at the Idea Festival. He talked about his new book that will be out this spring, “Intelligent Mistakes” (which many not be the title by the time it goes to press) - He wrote the book out of his own curiousity about why smart people, make stupid mistakes, himself included.
What he said was, we all have these “scripts” in our heads and most of the time they serve us well. Think of times, you tie your shoes, as you talk to a friend - your shoes get tied - but did you really “think” about how to tie your shoes?
The point is this, we have scripts for many things. (I mean really, how would you make it thru the day if you had to “think” about everything you did?)
People who voted for Reagan had decided, he was a good person, some one you could trust, intelligent and….
So, they heard and saw the things they expected to see and hear.
And they stopped really listening to what he was saying. As long as he used a few key words, that’s all they needed to hear to reassure them…somewhere there may have been a nagging voice saying - something doesn’t seem quite right - but, most of us ignore that voice until something bad happens.
If we listen, then we save ourselves from an intelligent mistake.
All that to say, I think this is how many did not see or hear what he was really saying/doing.
So what are we not seeing today?