David’s Response

Posted by Benjamin on: 10.29.2007 /

I was moved by many of the things which David wrote in his lengthy response to Jim Baxter’s recent article. I wanted to repost some excerpts at the top of a new conversation. I would encourage you to read David’s entire response. The emphasis (bolded text) has been added by me. The questions at the end are from me.

Dear Mr. Baxter,
Perhaps the better part of valor is not to respond. However, as I have learned through great difficulty in my life and as I have told others, allowing assertions with which I disagree to pass unanswered is the same as accepting them. The message to you, were I to leave this un-remarked, would be that I either approve of your message or I am afraid. My parents raised me to accept the authority of my elders. You are not only older than I, you have done things that probably required great bravery. I would guess you are a respectable person. However, my path toward becoming a peacenik began with the realization that my elders could not always be trusted and their word was not always true.

All of this is to say that much of my sadness for those who died from the A-bombing of Japan is completely separate from my feelings about the cause their country espoused. Likewise, my feeling that nuclear weapons are terrible and should never be used does not directly correlate to a sense that you or other soldiers should have had to risk their lives invading mainland Japan. I have seen the pictures. I have read the accounts of survivors. That informs my view the bombs were terrible and should never be used again. Hopefully annual reminders of them will preclude their use in the future. Tolling bells or fluttering doves seems a small price to pay for vigilance against a conflagration that could consume all the children.

Is it possible my wish that an atom bomb had never been used does not necessarily denigrate WWII veterans or wish them death? Is it wrong to feel guilt, shame and revulsion at all of the engines of destruction to which humans have turned their hands, their minds and, yes, sometimes their hearts in the multi-millennia of our history? Would it be better to revel in the destruction because of all the pain it saved me? Perhaps those are questions that can only be answered by better people than myself.

On Aug. 6, 1945 the first atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima. The Japanese government gathered two days later to discuss how to deal with the changed situation. On Aug. 9 the Soviet Union declared war on Japan and invaded Manchuria. The Japanese government and high command met again and had come to the conclusion the war was lost and must be ended immediately. A split remained over whether some terms could be negotiated. Before the meeting concluded word came of the second Atomic bomb blast.

Historians still debate whether the same affect could have been gained by an offshore detonation of the second bomb as simply a demonstration that the US was capable of dropping more such bombs. However, the great awakening brought about by those two blinding lights changed Japanese society in many ways. The Japanese constitution was modified to prohibit an army. Recently riots broke out over plans to send a Japanese contingent to Iraq. Attempts to reconstitute a Japanese army, 60 years after the end of the war, have been met by popular resistance in Japan. The Japanese learned first hand that war is hell and are now largely unwilling to wage it on other nations.

In the end, we may have taught the Japanese a valuable lesson. But what did the US learn?

Today we still kill innocents in other countries. We spy on our own people. We arrest those who have committed no crime, sometimes simply because of how they look or the sound of their names. We imprison suspected terrorists without trial or recourse to counsel in violation of the US Constitution (an opinion held by the Supreme Court). Some of those jailed have been American citizens and more than one has been taken to a foreign country where they have been held secretly and questioned under duress. A few have emerged from such imprisonments to tell of the mistakes that led to their arrest. They have also told of torture and other inhumane treatment to which they were subjected in violation of national and international laws. Soldiers captured in Iraq and Afghanistan have also had their Geneva rights abrogated by US troops under orders from the top people in our defense department.

All this is to say we are now doing all the things for which we vilified the Germans and Japanese during World War II.

You say trust freedom, but what do you call those who question, those who defer from blind service to this country, those who exercise their right to speak and peaceably petition the government for a redress of grievances? Ignorant. Cowards. Effete. Ungrateful. Vain. Dull. Traitors. I call such words the tools of tyrants. The Constitution calls for citizens to question. This nation was formed as an escape from blind obedience. Yet for all of my life those who ask why, those who say: NO have been bullied. I can’t count the number of times I have heard: If you don’t like it here, go live in the USSR.

Yet all of these things I might accept if simply couched as nationalistic fervor. Who am I, after all, to question the purposes of this nation if a majority conclude that we should harm others to further our own purposes. It has been this way since civilization began and the US has proved no exception. However, what I can’t accept is when these concepts are tied to God and, more so, his son Jesus.

Perhaps it is not your intention to make such linkage. However, the current government of this country does so on a regular basis. I must reject connections between God and country and war secondly because history shows us where this leads, but first because it is a violation of my faith in a power greater than this nation and its temporal leaders. These are the principals that I accepted when I took on the yoke of Christ: To love God above all things and to love my neighbor as myself. To do good to those who harm me. To love my enemies. To sacrifice anything, even my own life (if I have the strength and courage) in the service of the Kingdom of God, rather than some petty nation. To live, as best I can, with my eyes on heaven but my feet and hands and heart and mind on earth.

I have no faith in the things that humans can invent. The potentiality of humanity is amazing, but every blazing light of insight seems to also carry a bomb blast of destruction. Every gain is balanced with tragic loss. And nearly every person nurses the seeds of an oppressor within.

I will not argue the means to peace. I do not see through God’s eyes or know his thoughts. The grand purposes and end of history are beyond me. What I am charged to do is BE peace in the world. That does not require fancy words, arguments of philosophy, a chess-like divining of move and counter move. What it asks is that I do no harm, even if harm is done to me. And that I speak against any effort to do harm to others.

A woman from my church recently returned from Columbia where she spent time with a Christian Peacemaker team. Most of their job was to simply stay in the homes of people. While they were there, those people were safe. Government assassins, rebel militias and drug gangs left these people alone out of concern for what would occur should they go in and harm a foreigner. Perhaps it is not the same as assaulting a beach or charging a bunker. But it is a small way to pass on and, hopefully, preserve rights and freedoms for others.

Jesus said: “Blessed are the Peacemakers for they will be called the sons of God.”

.

A couple questions:

4 Responses to "David’s Response"

  • Comment by: joe

    1 10/29/07 6:38 AM | Comment Link |

    The city where I live was flattened in the Second World War. Today there are municipal relations with other cities devastated by the conflict which killed such a high proportion of the people of Coventry.

    This is a statue, a copy of which lies in the peace garden of Hiroshima and the ruins of the old Cathedral in Coventry. A place where the daily prayer of reconciliation begins:

    All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

    The hatred which divides nation from nation, race from race, class from class,
    Father Forgive.

    War is not glorious. The fields of Flanders and the beaches of Normandy are not places to reflect on the Allied glories, but to remember the pointlessness of lives lost. Yes, Hitler was evil, yes it was right to stand up against his tyrrany.

    But if we look within ourselves, we find that we’re not so great either. Our wars are not often against great evil but for our own self interest. I don’t accept that we’re ‘in the end times’. I don’t accept that ‘we’re on the Lord’s side’.

    I submit that we are wrong. We are very badly wrong and we are each a cause of instability and injustice in the world.

    And the Christ I follow is the Christ who calls us to embrace and not to enter every spurious conflict our leaders insist we fight. We ask for forgiveness, because we recognise that the boundary between good and evil is not between ‘them and us’ but divides every human heart. In slightly different circumstances, that could have been me.

  • Comment by: Keith

    2 10/31/07 7:46 AM | Comment Link |

    From Jim Baxter’s response from the previous thread …

    Faith requires courage of conviction - not any variety of gutless wordy retreat.

    You are a patty-cake group of losers. You will have some compelling experiences yet in your future. Governments don’t have “a cheek to turn” - only individuals. So be it. Psalm 25:12 kjv

    “You are a patty-cake group of losers” seems to satisfy the gutless and wordy. If you don’t post again, I think we will have seen our retreat, you man of faith, courage, and conviction.

    Unlike man, GOD does not lie, or play extensive verbiage games of self-justification

    Your message is reasonably accurate over the historical period delineated, however, I reject any conclusion or act that will encourage any abuser to proceed with his view of cannibalism on human beings.

    This is a verbiage game of self-justification (for further examples see the lesson on quantum physics). David’s post was not about cannibalism, and I doubt that very little in WWII dealt with stopping cannibalism. You express fear of being eaten and then call us patty-cake losers.

    Confidence in man is not worthy. His man-made ‘criteria’ for choice is hobbled in an ego-centric carnal selfhood and rises no higher than his belly-button. Even his selective reading of GOD-made transcendent criteria, Scripture, is to be questioned, regardless of station, age, or office.

    Do you apply this standard to yourself? Do you patiently encourage others to question others regardless of their station, age, or office …

    The message is this: Trust Freedom. Remember, tyrants never learn.

    So it seems.

    Mr. Baxter, thank you for the courage to post your thoughts. If you are for real - and you sound like a hoax at times - I hope that you can find a way to be at peace with all that you have experienced without denigrating those who are not similiarly at peace.

    One more item of importance. When I was young, patty-cake was great … I’d giggle like crazy. When I grew to be a young boy or even a teen, patty-cake would work as an insult. I knew that someone who calls me “patty-cake” was saying I was a baby and not a man - and the best way to show them I was a man was to sock them in the nose. Now that I am a father of three, you can call me patty-cake all you want. I know that real men play patty-cake (I did last night with my baby boy and he giggled like crazy). Real manhood is about helping others grow up … if real manhood means realizing there’s more to being a man than punching back, perhaps some governments lack more anatomy than just cheeks to turn.

    Thank you again for posting, and for being willing to accept and respond to tough posts in reply. Thank you for risking your life on behalf of others. I look forward to your response.

  • Comment by: April Terry

    3 11/5/07 10:18 AM | Comment Link |

    I kind of appreciate that Jim stayed around for as long as he did (which is unusual), but it still bothers me when people whom you disagree with sling an insult and run.

    I mean, what did he expect to hear from this blog? Had he read any of the posts on this blog before? Did he really expect that we would all suddenly see things his way and praise him for bringing us out of our dark world and into his lighted one? To be honest, it kind of boggles my mind.

    Beyond that, I would like to thank David for his literate and well-stated post.

  • Comment by: David H

    4 11/7/07 12:41 AM | Comment Link |

    I know lots of people like Jim. Many of them see themselves as prophets calling to the faithful and damning the apostates. It isn’t about convincing anyone and there is often, in the people I have known, little reason — at least of the kind that can come out in discourse. These — whatever they are — are subject to discussion. They are writ of one kind or another.

    It would be great if reason would change people like Jim, but I really wish love would make him see things differently. Not the world. That is too big. Just one person.

    He mentioned being stationed in Japan following WWII. Did he meet any Japanese people? Did he see any of the children who suffered and died? Did he feel as if they deserved it?

    War is horrible. I can’t understand what it would be like to assault an enemy position; to sight down the barrel of a gun and shoot another human being or to know that there is someone sighting down a gun at you. I’m sure it has to change you in many ways. I’m not sure how one could survive it mentally unless they were changed.

    I hold no ill will toward Jim. In some ways it may be necessary for him to believe what he believes. There, perhaps, lies the fulcrum of life. On one side of the lever is the weight of those who deserve it. Once you step to that side, then you may discover that more and more people should be punished because they brought it on themselves. On the other side is forgiveness. To step that way lets people off the hook even when they absolutely caused the harm happening to themselves. It is difficult to stay in the middle. People tend to lean. Once there is enough weight to one side, a slide often begins. But the only thing that really changes is the attitude of the person sliding. The people, with all of their personal wrongs (calls them sins or whatever) aren’t any different. Only I am different.

    I can’t help but wonder which direction will end the slide in the arms of Jesus?

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