What stops me forgiving?
1. Thinking forgiveness is a one-off instant that i can just decide and it’s all done and dealt with
2. Being overwhelmed by doing ‘damage analysis’ and trying to really understand the depth of the harm to me. On 2nd thoughts, I think that might be PART of forgiveness. It’s definitely important, good and hard
3. Desire for revenge, and feeling like it’s up to me to make sure the offender gets their just desserts.
4. Fury, rage, anger, passion
5. Apathy
I ran across this today and it seems appropriate to where I am right now. At the moment, the chief thing stopping me from forgiving is fear. Predominantly it is fear that forgiveness opens the door to being hurt again. Fear that the required equation is: forgiveness = vulnerability.
I agree with Meg, there are issues with anger, apathy, wanting to see justice done and the sense — that sometimes combines all of those things — that if the person really wanted forgiveness they wouldn’t keep repeating their mistake. But then I tell myself that forgiveness, in a transactional sense, doesn’t really have anything to do with whether the other person wants it or not.
In the end, it seems to be mostly fear for me. Fear that forgiveness will open the door to more abuse and/or that the I will be giving something of great value to someone who won’t properly value it.
What stops me? I do. If the thing I’m forgiving is still happening, that is. Once it’s over however (whether by remorse or they’re just done with it), I can forgive quite easily. But knowing they will keep doing it makes me not want to forgive..
Mike, I totally I agree. The hardest time to forgive is when the person is not sorry, they don’t even admit they did it, and they will probably do it again and again.
Dave, I like your comments. Mike too. And Rachel. for me, forgiveness is separate from relationship with the person - i can be in process of forgiving somebody, and never speak to them again, to protect myself from further abuse. people who disagree with me on this one really piss me off.
Meg, I do agree with you on this one. And not for fear of pissing you off. ;-) I think that forgiveness and reconciliation are two separate things. Forgiveness is about letting go of the bitterness so it doesn’t poison a person’s life and it is something that one person can choose to do unilaterally (though it will often take time). But it takes two people to affect a reconciliation and the offending party must be willing to take full responsibility for their offense and to demonstrate that they have changed.
To tell someone who has been abused that they must continue to have a relationship with an unrepentant abuser to demonstrate “forgiveness” is sick and wrong. When you put your hand in a hole and get bit by a snake, you must suck the venom out of the wound so it doesn’t poison you. But you don’t stick your hand back in the hole.
But it takes two people to affect a reconciliation and the offending party must be willing to take full responsibility for their offense and to demonstrate that they have changed.
In the Christian circles of my upbringing forgiveness and reconciliation often got confused. Often reconciliation was considered part of forgiveness and sometimes the lack of reconciliation was considered worse than whatever thing triggered the need for forgiveness.
The one time I went to see a counselor with my father he took my sister and I to a Christian psychiatrist he was seeing. That man focused exclusively on our need to reconcile with our father. He deemed it paramount to my father’s healing that we let him off the hook. This was after the death of my brother but while I was still in college. I was stunned. Here my father had done terrible things — many I didn’t even know of, but some that were common knowledge — and the only thing holding him back was me. Not only has it made forgiveness very confusing for me, but it also made it very difficult for me to seek psychological help for years.
I still struggle to forgive my father, knowing now that act has more to do with me than anything he may or may not do. But I do not expect reconciliation in this life.
The one time I went to see a counselor with my father he took my sister and I to a Christian psychiatrist he was seeing. That man focused exclusively on our need to reconcile with our father. He deemed it paramount to my father’s healing that we let him off the hook.
David, I also visited a Christian psychologist, but fortunately I had a better experience. This man did emphasize working through the process of forgiveness in order to gain freedom from bitterness. But he also emphasized the importance of setting boundaries. Early my counseling experience, this man encouraged me to telephone a particular boundary violator in my life and set two specific boundaries. I waited a whole week to make the phone call until one hour before my next counseling appointment. I made the call, said my piece, hung up, went into the bathroom and threw up, took two asprin, and drove directly to my appointment with this counselor! (I have gotten better at setting boundaries since then.) This counselor was such a blessing to me and I am so grateful that I found someone who helped, not caused more harm.
Wow, David. I am shocked that any counselor who was working with your father - would tell you - you had to reconcile with your father. That just seems bizarre.
In the setting you described, it seems to me that your father needed to “reconcile with you”.
While it is good for us to forgive those who have harmed us - so often, the forgiving is really about us not holding on to thoughts that are harming us - many times the other person is oblivious to the harm or pain they have caused.
But, forgiving is not the same as reconciling. Growing up I heard as a Christian I was to “forgive and forget” - but we are not called to forget.
Once I realized I did not have to “forget” a wrong perpetrated against me - it freed me to forgive.
Wow, David. I am shocked that any counselor who was working with your father - would tell you - you had to reconcile with your father. That just seems bizarre.
Elaine
your shock seems to indicate that you’ve had a lot better overall experience than perhaps the average person does. There are a lot of really toxic people out there operating as “counselors”.
Once I realized I did not have to “forget” a wrong perpetrated against me - it freed me to forgive.
Wow–you said what happened to me too, but I haven’t been able to verbalize it so clearly. thankyou.
Ironically my mother is one of those toxic people out there operating as counselors. It’s so hard to understand how she goes on helping others achieve clarity, peace, freedom & love when she has disowned me b/c she can’t stand that I do not respect her. It’s tough to respect someone who does not walk the talk. I want to be happy for her and her successes, but it worries me that people will see through her & the truth will be known. Do I want that? I don’t know. I crave the truth. I crave genuine relationships and it is out of my comfort zone to be fake & pretend that we don’t have a MAJOR problem. So, on one hand I forgive her b/c she is my mother, she is human and we all make mistakes. On the other, I am still deeply hurt by her lack of love, the blame she puts on me (since she is the wise old counselor & is always right) and the loss of the relationship.
Sounds super painful. I love it that you are willing to be in touch with all these feeling and thoughts that you have about your mom and in a sense to sit with them–that is, not to run away from them. this is something I wish I were better able to do.
Comment by: Meg
1 11/7/07 10:23 PM | Comment Link |What stops me forgiving?
1. Thinking forgiveness is a one-off instant that i can just decide and it’s all done and dealt with
2. Being overwhelmed by doing ‘damage analysis’ and trying to really understand the depth of the harm to me. On 2nd thoughts, I think that might be PART of forgiveness. It’s definitely important, good and hard
3. Desire for revenge, and feeling like it’s up to me to make sure the offender gets their just desserts.
4. Fury, rage, anger, passion
5. Apathy
Comment by: David H
2 11/8/07 12:44 PM | Comment Link |I ran across this today and it seems appropriate to where I am right now. At the moment, the chief thing stopping me from forgiving is fear. Predominantly it is fear that forgiveness opens the door to being hurt again. Fear that the required equation is: forgiveness = vulnerability.
I agree with Meg, there are issues with anger, apathy, wanting to see justice done and the sense — that sometimes combines all of those things — that if the person really wanted forgiveness they wouldn’t keep repeating their mistake. But then I tell myself that forgiveness, in a transactional sense, doesn’t really have anything to do with whether the other person wants it or not.
In the end, it seems to be mostly fear for me. Fear that forgiveness will open the door to more abuse and/or that the I will be giving something of great value to someone who won’t properly value it.
Comment by: Mike O
3 11/8/07 3:39 PM | Comment Link |What stops me? I do. If the thing I’m forgiving is still happening, that is. Once it’s over however (whether by remorse or they’re just done with it), I can forgive quite easily. But knowing they will keep doing it makes me not want to forgive..
Comment by: Rachel
4 11/8/07 8:59 PM | Comment Link |Mike, I totally I agree. The hardest time to forgive is when the person is not sorry, they don’t even admit they did it, and they will probably do it again and again.
Comment by: Meg
5 11/9/07 7:25 PM | Comment Link |Dave, I like your comments. Mike too. And Rachel. for me, forgiveness is separate from relationship with the person - i can be in process of forgiving somebody, and never speak to them again, to protect myself from further abuse. people who disagree with me on this one really piss me off.
Comment by: Rachel
6 11/9/07 8:54 PM | Comment Link |Meg, I do agree with you on this one. And not for fear of pissing you off. ;-) I think that forgiveness and reconciliation are two separate things. Forgiveness is about letting go of the bitterness so it doesn’t poison a person’s life and it is something that one person can choose to do unilaterally (though it will often take time). But it takes two people to affect a reconciliation and the offending party must be willing to take full responsibility for their offense and to demonstrate that they have changed.
To tell someone who has been abused that they must continue to have a relationship with an unrepentant abuser to demonstrate “forgiveness” is sick and wrong. When you put your hand in a hole and get bit by a snake, you must suck the venom out of the wound so it doesn’t poison you. But you don’t stick your hand back in the hole.
Comment by: David H
7 11/9/07 10:40 PM | Comment Link |In the Christian circles of my upbringing forgiveness and reconciliation often got confused. Often reconciliation was considered part of forgiveness and sometimes the lack of reconciliation was considered worse than whatever thing triggered the need for forgiveness.
The one time I went to see a counselor with my father he took my sister and I to a Christian psychiatrist he was seeing. That man focused exclusively on our need to reconcile with our father. He deemed it paramount to my father’s healing that we let him off the hook. This was after the death of my brother but while I was still in college. I was stunned. Here my father had done terrible things — many I didn’t even know of, but some that were common knowledge — and the only thing holding him back was me. Not only has it made forgiveness very confusing for me, but it also made it very difficult for me to seek psychological help for years.
I still struggle to forgive my father, knowing now that act has more to do with me than anything he may or may not do. But I do not expect reconciliation in this life.
Comment by: Rachel
8 11/10/07 9:59 AM | Comment Link |David, I also visited a Christian psychologist, but fortunately I had a better experience. This man did emphasize working through the process of forgiveness in order to gain freedom from bitterness. But he also emphasized the importance of setting boundaries. Early my counseling experience, this man encouraged me to telephone a particular boundary violator in my life and set two specific boundaries. I waited a whole week to make the phone call until one hour before my next counseling appointment. I made the call, said my piece, hung up, went into the bathroom and threw up, took two asprin, and drove directly to my appointment with this counselor! (I have gotten better at setting boundaries since then.) This counselor was such a blessing to me and I am so grateful that I found someone who helped, not caused more harm.
Comment by: Elaine
9 11/16/07 2:35 PM | Comment Link |Wow, David. I am shocked that any counselor who was working with your father - would tell you - you had to reconcile with your father. That just seems bizarre.
In the setting you described, it seems to me that your father needed to “reconcile with you”.
While it is good for us to forgive those who have harmed us - so often, the forgiving is really about us not holding on to thoughts that are harming us - many times the other person is oblivious to the harm or pain they have caused.
But, forgiving is not the same as reconciling. Growing up I heard as a Christian I was to “forgive and forget” - but we are not called to forget.
Once I realized I did not have to “forget” a wrong perpetrated against me - it freed me to forgive.
Comment by: benjamin ady
10 11/16/07 5:26 PM | Comment Link |Elaine
your shock seems to indicate that you’ve had a lot better overall experience than perhaps the average person does. There are a lot of really toxic people out there operating as “counselors”.
Wow–you said what happened to me too, but I haven’t been able to verbalize it so clearly. thankyou.
Comment by: Elaine
11 11/17/07 8:25 AM | Comment Link |Benjamin - yes, I think I have been fortunate in that regard. A few counselors/psychologists lacked skill in helping me - but none harmed me.
It pains me when I hear others’ stories of abuse at the hand of a counselor.
Thanks for the affirmation that my experience with “forget” aligns with yours.
Comment by: SJ
12 11/23/07 2:45 AM | Comment Link |Ironically my mother is one of those toxic people out there operating as counselors. It’s so hard to understand how she goes on helping others achieve clarity, peace, freedom & love when she has disowned me b/c she can’t stand that I do not respect her. It’s tough to respect someone who does not walk the talk. I want to be happy for her and her successes, but it worries me that people will see through her & the truth will be known. Do I want that? I don’t know. I crave the truth. I crave genuine relationships and it is out of my comfort zone to be fake & pretend that we don’t have a MAJOR problem. So, on one hand I forgive her b/c she is my mother, she is human and we all make mistakes. On the other, I am still deeply hurt by her lack of love, the blame she puts on me (since she is the wise old counselor & is always right) and the loss of the relationship.
Comment by: Benjamin ady
13 11/23/07 11:48 AM | Comment Link |SJ
Sounds super painful. I love it that you are willing to be in touch with all these feeling and thoughts that you have about your mom and in a sense to sit with them–that is, not to run away from them. this is something I wish I were better able to do.