Posted by Benjamin on: 11.12.2007 /
Words from the Wikipedia article on veterans day: heroes. honor. service. tribute. grateful nation. homage. solemnly remember. sacrifices. fought valiantly. preserve heritage of freedom. an enduring peace.
Words from George Bush’s speech today, on veterans day: good. noble. just. promise. sacrifice. honor. blessed. brave. service. valiantly. free. home. magnificent. proud. victory. safely.
why all these words? These words are being used to create/propogate a myth. By “myth” I mean “a traditional or sacred story that attempts to iterate, explain, or justify the thoughts and actions of a people”.
The myth we are creating/being created in is strongly related to the myth of redemptive violence.
The reality is this: my father, who is a reasonably good man, has probably been more profoundly affected by his involvement with the Vietnam War than by any other one thing in his life, including his acoholic father. He has spent time in psych wards. He has to take psychotropic medications to function. Apart from very faint memories as a very tiny lad, I cannot remember a time when my dad hasn’t suffered from chronic pain of one type or another in his body. He was doubtless exposed to Agent Orange. He was doubltless introduced to the most psychologically toxic horrors over there in Vietnam. He without doubt had to kill people, real live human beings with moms and dads and brothers and sisters. He probably had to kill children.
I’m not saying all this to dishonor my dad. He’s pretty damn close to the awesome end of the spectrum, as dads go.
I’m saying it because the myth is bunk. My dad didn’t sacrifice his health, his sanity, his humanity, for a good cause. He sacrificed it for a lousy cause–so that we Americans could continue to be the word’s most excellent consumers. So we can continue be part of the 20% who consume 80% of the world’s resources. So we can work 40 hour weeks, and have nice warm beds, and instant surgery in case of placental abruption, and personal computers upon which we can blog, and unbelieably huge amounts of food to eat, and pocket money, and 60″ plasma televisions, and big fancy trucks with big fancy fifth wheels in which we can spend our retirement putzing around this beautiful nation, all while 2 billion people live on $2/day or less, and the continent of Africa can’t even control stop malaria, the tools for the stopping of which have been around quite a while already, and 30,000 children starve to death every day, each for the lack of less money than we spend on lattes each day.
My dad sacrificed all that he sacrificed in order to maintain that imbalance in the world. Because such an imbalance doesn’t just stick around by itself. He sacrificed so that we the powerful can continue to have so much power at the expense of the weak. And in spite of all the lovely words of George Bush, and all the other deluded Americans who will write and celebrate and weep and remember this weekend–that’s a rotten cause. Vietnam, and Nicaragua, and Laos, and Cuba, and Afghanistan, and Iraq (and this list goes on for quite a long time) do not qualify as noble, honor, sacrifice, blah blah blah ad nauseam. They’re all based on the same hogwash myth. It’s all about hundreds and hundreds of thousands of normal, weak, poor, downtrodden people all over the world dying, just to make sure we stay on top of the heap. I hope today or tomorrow somebody blows up Liberty Enlightening the World, with her yotta-bullshit bronze plaque which reads
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
2 million new refugees from Iraq since 2003.
Many thousands of them are Iraqi girls and women who, having become refugees, have been forced into prostitution due to economic hardship, in Syria and other nations.
Fewer than 5000 have been accepted into the United States.
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Comment by: Martin Gugino
1 11/12/07 7:25 AM | Comment Link |Oh my. Killing on a grand scale to protect our national interests.
I am sure your dad is a good man.
Comment by: joe
2 11/12/07 8:01 AM | Comment Link |Are you reading Walter Wink, Benjamin?
Comment by: Benjamin ady
3 11/12/07 11:42 AM | Comment Link |Joe,
No-haven’t read Mr. Wink yet. He’s on the list of people I intend to read at some point. But I’ve become very vaguely familiar with his myth of redemptive violence idea over the past few months. Probably someone on this blog put me onto it. So I read the wiki article, and a couple other things online.
Do you recommend a particular book of his?
Comment by: Helen
4 11/12/07 12:01 PM | Comment Link |Benjamin, I’m sorry about your Dad and I hear what you’re saying about war.
Comment by: joe
5 11/12/07 12:11 PM | Comment Link |I’ve not read much either, though I am fairly sure the myth of redemptive violence is one of his concepts.
Comment by: Pam Hogeweide
6 11/12/07 12:27 PM | Comment Link |hey ben
my dad was a vn vet, too. did three tours. he eventually contracted rheumatoid arthritis in his forties and was once proclaimed the worst case of it in our home of las vegas. it debilitated his body for more than two decades. he finally passed away this past summer, free at last. my mom and dad wondered if his tours in vn exposed him to agent orange, but it’s impossible to know.
though my dad was security and never saw combat, vn had a profound impact on him, too. imagine what it was like the day i told him i was teaching english to vn refugees in hong kong camps. that was an interesting conversation.
i hear what you’re saying about war. nobody wins, not really.
can you post up some links about iraqi women turning to prostitution to survive? i’d like to know more about that. also, do you know who kevin bales is? he’s speaking here in portland tue night at powells. do you know if human trafficking is happening in iraq????
Comment by: Rachel
7 11/12/07 1:34 PM | Comment Link |Pam, I’m sure that human trafficking is going on in Iraq right now because the circumstances there very much fit the profile for an environment where trafficking flourishes. I learned a lot about human trafficking reading David Batstone’s excellent book Not for Sale.
Kevin Bales is awesome! Are you going to hear him tomorrow? If so, would you do a write-up afterwards for us to post here on Justice and Compassion?
Comment by: Randy
8 11/12/07 2:10 PM | Comment Link |Benjamin,
I am not a VN Vet, but I could have been. Lottery number 333 was high enough in 1972 to exclude me from the draft. The “conflict” was ending. I did not get called up.
Many of my friends did, though. Nobody had a good time there, at least not anyone I know. They did what they had to do, what they were constrained to do. Today I honor them for their sacrifice, even if they don’t feel it was worth it now.
I don’t know what to think about the present “war”, although the comparison to VN is rather striking. I had a wonderful conversation with Jon Michel (the almost general who is on the OTM board of directors) at the Event in Seattle one night. He had been up for 30 hours straight, just returning from Afganistan and then flying directly to Seattle. A couple of beers later we were talking in a small group about the whole Iraqi thing, when he asked us all, “What do you think it will take to win there?”. We all offered lame commentary, as if we knew stuff he didn’t. And then we decided maybe we should ask him, since he has actually been there.
“We cannot win the war. We can only hope to win the peace.” And he really wasn’t sure we had much of a shot at that anymore, though he seemed more hopeful than I about it.
Thank you for caring about all this. I will choose to fly my flag today and honor those who have served, died, and who continue to serve. Not because I believe in the causes they fought for, but because I believe in honor and sacrifice and nobility…and the slim chance of winning the peace in a world gone crazy.
May God have mercy on us all.
Comment by: Benjamin ady
9 11/12/07 2:12 PM | Comment Link |Pam,
Just very quickly on the Iraqi women turning to prostitution to survive. Two links.
from radio netherlands
Hana Ibrahim founded Iraqi women’s will, and estimates in June this year at least 50,000 iraqi women forced into prostitution in Syria.
and from the independent.
Comment by: Benjamin ady
10 11/12/07 2:21 PM | Comment Link |Randy,
thankyou for dropping in.
Are you super glad you didn’t get called up?
When you say your friends who did get conscripted did what they were “constrained to do”, do you mean that … from a “within this culture” point of view, they didn’t really have any other options? I mean to say do you see this in terms of the fact that, as Dr. Zimbardo puts it, you can’t be a sweet cucumber in a pickle barrel?
When you say you will honor those who served, died, and continue to serve–are you referrring specifically to military veterans? What do you mean by “honor” in this context? Is it related to love? Does honor *mean* casting their stories in a … beautific light?
Hope I’m not asking too many questions. I attempting to be genuinely curious here, but it’s a skill I’m still developing, so bear with me =).
Comment by: Randy
11 11/12/07 3:12 PM | Comment Link |Benjamin,
I was in fact super glad I didn’t get called up. I was a new Christian at the time, and couldn’t seem to get my head around killing people. I saw my being passed over as an answer to prayer.
I also realized, just about ten years ago, that I carried a lot of guilt about not going, as well. Part of me apparently felt like I SHOULD have gone and suffered with my brothers. Why should I have been granted this release and not them? It took a few years to work that through, but I still struggle a bit with it. Turns out a lot of us who didn’t go back then felt this way, quite secretly.
By constrained, I literally mean they were “conscripted”…most of them, anyway. Called up. Even those who were volunteers were constrained by the military system to obey orders. If you talk to a Vet and ask them what they were fighting for (even most of the remaining WW2 vets will say this), they will tell you they were fighting to save their comrades in arms from death. They were fighting to survive and go home. The philosophical motivation sort of gets blurred when you are being shot at frequently, I’m told.
And I don’t know who Dr. Zimbardo is, but it sounds like he might have been there.
Yes…today I honor those who served, died, and continue to serve in the military. That, I believe, is the intent of this particular holiday. I’m not aware of other “veterans” who might be included in this, but if there are others I’d be happy to honor them as well.
Honor means to me to notice them, and to publicly affirm that they matter (in small or larger ways, like parades). It is related to love in the sense that paying attention, noticing and listening are all acts of love…and ways to honor another human being. I don’t pretend there is anything “beautific” about killing, no matter what the reason for it would be (and I’d have to admit that I am not a pacifist…I’d kill someone without a thought if they were to threaten the life of my wife or children. This is why I could not claim the C.O. status back in ‘72).
Never too many questions. The problem is assuming we have all the answers.
love you…
Comment by: Benjamin ady
12 11/12/07 6:13 PM | Comment Link |randy
I love this quote from you. I’m working on getting better at this. Off the map has helped me a lot along these lines.
I find it’s hard for me to … reconcile this in my head, however, with speaking out against the war and the killing. I mean to say that, for instance, I want to honor my dad in this way. Some of the most brilliant converstaions I’ve ever had the privilege of having with my dad has been when he has been willing to open up to me and just tell stories about his time in Vietnam and Southeast Asia. My wife has actually led the way for me in this–she doesn’t have so much baggage, and she actually is genuinely curiuos–so she just matter of factly pursues his stories, and he shares them.
But at some level I feel like a fraud over this. On the one hand here I am on the web saying that it’s all … bunk-the whole “glory of war” thing. And on the other hand, I am genuinely fascinated by, and genuinely long for, honest open real stories from my dad and from other real human beings who have taken part in and been affected by war. It feels like I have some kind of disconnect going on here. I must ponder this further.
Comment by: Randy
13 11/12/07 7:20 PM | Comment Link |I think it’s true, what Jim says. “Liking someone changes the rules.”
I love the tenderness in your comments about your dad. You honor (and love) him by telling his story here.
I read it to my 24 year old son, and our posts back and forth. He totally agrees with you on the issues (as do I, by the way), but then says that it’s hard to be angry “at the war machine” when it suddenly develops faces…faces of people you like and care about. He has friends who have gone to Iraq and come home to derision and ridicule. I told him that’s how it was for my friends who came home from VN, too. They were called “baby killers”. It made me cry to remember. Still some tender spots there, I guess.
This was a great process for me today…Veterans Day. I’m so glad I came by. Thank you.
Comment by: Helen
14 11/12/07 7:49 PM | Comment Link |Benjamin wrote:
Actually I don’t see a disconnect there. Sometimes extreme situations bring out the best in people and it’s neat to hear their stories. However it doesn’t necessarily mean we wanted them to be in the extreme situations in the first place.
Comment by: Rachel
15 11/12/07 9:39 PM | Comment Link |I think that the soldiers are victims of war too. So to me Veteran’s Day is a time to remember and acknowledge their suffering and sacrifice. I guess it’s more like visiting a cemetery than having a parade.
Randy, my husband’s boss told us about his experience arriving home at the end of his tour in Vietnam. He was 19 years old and he had never been away from home before. He was so happy to be back in the US and he said he wanted to kiss the ground when he got off the plane. But instead he was pelted with rotten tomatoes. He said he was completely stunned and he had no idea why this was being done to him. And he said he has never forgiven those who did it.
Comment by: Randy
16 11/12/07 11:20 PM | Comment Link |Ok…you made me cry again. These are the casualties of war as much as those who lost life and limb. Many of these vets are living homeless, angry and bitter lives. My heart grieves for them as much as for those who were killed in battle today.
Thanks for that story today, Rachel. It’s good to remember (and too easy to forget).
Comment by: joe
17 11/13/07 3:46 AM | Comment Link |I’ve been reading a bit about conscientious objectors and considering pacifism - people who in the past suffered the displeasure of society by refusing to enlist.
Unfortunately, it appears that the rules around becoming a conscientious objector are strict, and one needed to go before a court of law to prove the ‘right’ not to fight. Rather than showing a political objection to this particular war, the objector had to show that he would not fight in any war, whatever the circumstances.
My position is slightly more nuanced, and hence I don’t think I would be described as a conscientious objector.
I retain the belief that it is right to protect the weak and innocent. In some circumstances, I accept that that may require use of violence. I will not stand back and allow genocide to happen whilst I make grand claims about pacifism.
On the other hand, I retain a conscience. I will not fight in any war currently engaged by my government or in any war that they are likely to be engaged in. Whilst some conflicts in the past were ‘just’, we conducted ourselves badly in many ways. Most conflicts are not just and are only extensions of our selfish greed.
Comment by: David H
18 11/13/07 10:54 AM | Comment Link |NPR had a piece yesterday about how veterans make up a disproportionate segment of the homeless society in America. This is proving true even with those returning from Iraq and Afghanistan. One reason supposed for this is the government and military’s ignoring of PTSD. Not only does their continue to be a social stigma for that syndrome (within the US military), for officers seeking treatment it is career suicide.
I am a conscientious objector. I have growing doubts there has ever been a war fought purely for “just” reasons. However, on Veterans Day I remember my grandfathers, uncles, brother, etc. who have all been part of the US military. I may not agree with the wars my country has waged in the last 50 years, but I can say a prayer of remembrance for all those soldiers who don’t agree with me and did what they thought was right.
The treatment of Vietnam War vets by those who opposed the war was and is sickening. The truth of military service is that once you sign up you no longer have choices about where you go and what you do. When you are told to fight you have lots of reasons to do that, including the guy sharing your foxhole and the other guy shooting at you both. The vets from Vietnam were caught between thoughtless citizens and a heartless government. The people at home damned them for doing what they were told and the government damned them by sending them to fight in a useless war. I can honor the men (and women) who make sacrifices without agreeing with their cause. I can respect them for paying a great price to do what they thought was right even if I self-righteously believe they are ultimately wrong. I can admire their courage. I can weep for the loved ones who miss them, just as I weep for those still living in the countries ravaged by war.
Comment by: Staci
19 11/13/07 4:47 PM | Comment Link |Our local news station also did a piece on homeless vets. They interviewed the head of the local Mission who said they’ve had a drop in the number of VN vets as they are reaching the age to collect social security, but are also starting to see younger vets from the current wars and other recent wars/”conflicts.” This is somewhat off the original topic, but I was struck by the thought of one government “program” putting people on the street and the other helping them off. And which one is in jeopardy?
Comment by: Rachel
20 11/13/07 5:06 PM | Comment Link |Well said, Joe & David!
Comment by: Pam Hogeweide
21 11/14/07 10:30 AM | Comment Link |i had it on my calendar to go hear kevin at Powells. But alas, it was not to be. I also own a copy of Batstone’s book. And I read a book of Kevin’s earlier this year. It was a sobering eye opener to read his report on human trafficking around the globe. (Kevin Bales is considered the leading authority in the world today on modern day slavery. Link his site here.
Comment by: David H
22 11/14/07 4:48 PM | Comment Link |On Iraqi refugees turning to prostitution:
This is an Associated Press article from Oct. 24.
This from CBS news has photos and video.
There is also a report from the UN.
Some reports I have seen say pre-teen girls are often involved because of a) demand and b) there is little else they can do to help support their refugee families or c) they are largely on their own and have no other way to survive.
Comment by: Benjamin ady
23 11/14/07 9:17 PM | Comment Link |Randy
I certainly wouldn’t criticize you for this thought. From one perspective it’s pretty damn sensible. I’m just curious as to whether you have any sense of this being in conflict with you being a christ follower? I mean that has been my understanding. I guess what I mean to say is: do you consider yourself a christ follower? And if so, do you find your statement above conflicts with that at all? I mean would you find it reasonable to say that at least in this case, you would choose this *rather* than following christ? Or do you see the two as not being in conflict at all? I’d love to hear your thoughts on this. I don’t call myself a christ follower, because I don’t really agree with or even understand a lot of the stuff Jesus said and did. But I find his clarion call to non-violence really compelling and attractive.
Comment by: Benjamin ady
24 11/14/07 9:21 PM | Comment Link |Helen. indeed. *and* I also find the stories compelling when they are about how extreme situations brought out the worst in people. Best or worst–it makes great story. The only bad story is a bland story, I guess. And I’m convinced no human beings actually have that type.
Comment by: Benjamin ady
25 11/14/07 9:27 PM | Comment Link |Staci–indeed! Did you see the report out yesterday that the final estimated costs of Iraq and Afghanistan is $1.6 TRILLION?
Comment by: Benjamin ady
26 11/14/07 9:39 PM | Comment Link |Joe
There are some people out there with really great stories about how they avoided the draft back in Vietnam because they objected to the war, but were refused, or knew they would be refused, C.O. status. My parents find this pretty disturbing, I guess partly because my dad sort of had to go.
Randy–I wonder if those who consciously chose to not go–to either avoid the draft or in worse case sit in the brig until war’s end–feel less of that … guilty feeling that you were describing? It seems like it has to do with power somehow–some people receive the freedom to realize that they *do* have the power to refuse violence, while other people are never granted the education or perspective or choice to be able to see that, and simply feel that they must bow to empire and serve it. Am I making any sense? It’s like the empire is able to prey on the weakest and most vulnerable at this end as well as “over there”. Meanwhile executives at Alliant Tech Systems and Honeywell and other big arms manufacturers are getting very very rich and going home in the evenings to their multi million dollar houses where they can sip fine wine, have fancy dinner parties, and choose not to think about all the people who are being required to kill, and who are being killed, all using the evil tools they manufacture.
Oh dear. Didn’t mean to get so carried away. Would love to hear y’all’s response. (Can one say “y’all’s”?)
Comment by: David H
27 11/15/07 7:23 AM | Comment Link |I believe the proper sentence structure would be “love to hear y’all respond.” My Dad is from Alabama, so I grew up with the word and would hate to hear it used incorrectly;-).
I don’t want to put words in Randy’s mouth or his head, but my first thought on reading his comment was survivor’s syndrome. People who escape a calamity (man-made or other) sometimes feel as if they are no more deserving of being spared than others who were not. It is an underlying dark sense of “why not me.”
The strict Mennonite belief does not allow for even willful police intervention (because they might do violence on your behalf). They believe that the call to non-violence is total and all-encompassing. I can’t quite get there. I could see myself reacting violently to a direct attack on myself or my family. I tell myself this is because my motives would at least be clear and straight-forward. My problem with extrapolating that out to serving in the armed forces is there the motives are seldom clear or straight-forward beyond the sense one is in it for their comrade. Seldom does a soldier get to know why they are shooting at someone else other than because that person is shooting back. And in this day it may not even be because they other shot first.
Comment by: Randy
28 11/15/07 1:13 PM | Comment Link |Sorry for the long lapse…got busy.
Thank you, Benjamin, for your thoughtful questions. David H did a great job of explaining precisely what I meant by the feelings of guilt I experienced in not going to VN. This seems to be fairly wide-spread among guys in my situation. It was revealed to me powerfully upon my first (and only) viewing of the movie, “Platoon”. That movie incapacitated me for over an hour, and at the time I had no idea why. Luckily I was with some really good friends who just sat with me for a while (I couldn’t even speak…just wept for an hour).
Regarding your first question about my willingness to kill and what you described as Jesus’ “clarion call to non-violence”, I am afraid I have to confess to being a rather imperfect follower. I am not convinced that Jesus was that clear on the non-violence issue as it is typically understood today, but I won’t argue the case either way. I just know that I would not stand by and watch my wife or children be mutilated by some psycho while I can do anything about it. I cannot imagine Jesus just standing by, either, but then I’m a lot more like Peter than Jesus, sadly. While Peter was a tad implusive, Jesus seemed to like who he was and even gave him a fair amount of authority over the new movement. He probably became a bit less impulsive (and violent), but I’m grateful that he wasn’t booted for cutting off a guy’s ear thinking he was defending his friend.
So I don’t know, friend. One time when a friend’s grandaughter was put into a dryer by her meth using, wife beating father, I vowed to make sure that no further violence happened to her. I told my boss (then the senior pastor of the church I worked for) that if there was a single mark on the girl that was the result of her idiot father’s hand, I would hunt him down (I knew where he lived) and shoot his knee-caps off with my shotgun. I would not kill him, but I would make sure that four-year old had a chance with him next time. And I’d gladly go to prison for doing it.
That makes me sound like a vigilante, doesn’t it? Or maybe not like a very good follower of Jesus. I can’t argue against either accusation, frankly. I’m counting on Jesus transforming me enough to not embarass him. So far he’s worked miracles in this way.
I never had to deal with the idiot father, by the way. He ended up getting killed in a shootout with the police about a month after my vow. Can’t say I was very sad about that.
Comment by: benjamin ady
29 11/15/07 1:44 PM | Comment Link |Wow–see? That’s a brilliant, astounding, moving story. That just sound mega-intense. Thankyou so much for sharing that. Now I have to see platoon. I wonder if I could convince my dad to watch it with me? That actually sounds kind of terrifying, but definitely the sort of terrifying where one wants to run *toward* the terror, like some kind of nutso kamikaze christian or something.
Randy,
I’m *super* intrigued by your thing about the kneecaps, because it’s the sort of thing my dad sometimes says. I’m wondering (and you don’t have to reveal anything here which would end you up in prison =)) how your *words* match up with your *actions* with regards to such violent actions? I’m intrigued because my dad has said that sort of thing all his life. Like he was gonna track someone down and shoot them dead if they ever did such and such, for instance. But he never *acted* this way. He never actually *shot* anyone apart from Vientnam, I don’t think, and he’s actually a lot more sensible than that. For instance, one time some crazy customer who was angry about something called my dad on the phone and said he was coming down to the shop with a gun. Now my dad carries a concealed weapon, but he didn’t do anything crazy. Instead, he hung up on the guy and called the cops, who showed up momentarily and arrested the guy when he arrived. I’ve always wondered why my dad would *say* such things, which sounded violent and crazy, and yet he tended to *act* rather more sensibly.
I rather like Dan Allender’s take on how to respond to the horror of abuse, like how to respond to the guy who put his daughter in the dryer. Dan seems to be able to see such situations in a peircingly cold sense in that he’s able to perceive the *truth* behind the situation, and yet he seems able to respond in a piercingly *hot* sense in that he’s able to choose to engage in a very real way with the emotions engendered by such situations, and choose to … love, yes, even to love the perp, in such a way that one cunningly acts in order to draw, or even *force*, the perp in the direction of coming face to face with the reality of the horror of what they have done, in order to compel them to sit, all at the same time, with *both* the reality of the horror of their own actions *and* the reality that God loves them–not a weak, stupid, love, but a devastating, powerful love that demands/forces them to change *because* the love wants the best for them and *because* the love is intellectually and emotionally engaged with their present reality, in all it’s terrifying, “let me fucking escape” horror.
I don’t mean Dan manages to *do* all that. I mean that his writing provokes me to move in the direction of increasing my ability to do all that.
Hope I’m making some kind of sense here.
Comment by: Randy
30 11/15/07 2:42 PM | Comment Link |Benjamin,
I do not know what my potential is regarding violence. Like your dad, I talk about such things far more than I have ever actually done anything like them (at least since I started following Jesus…it was a different life before then). It might be a way we self-diffuse…an external processor thing. In the case of the abused girl, I was at least emotionally and intellectually (if not ethically) resolved to actually maiming the perpetrator. It was good that I was not put in the place where I had to actually make it happen (good for everyone, probably), and I cannot say for certain I would have followed through. But I can say that I’ve never been so clearly resolved about anything like this in the past. That sort of scares me.
Dealing with what has happened in the past, as Allender addresses, is something different to me. I think he’s right on with that strategy, and it sounds very much like Jesus (perhaps requiring the very Spirit of Christ to accomplish). I am only addressing my imagined ability to take a life when it comes to stopping someone from taking a life, in particular the life of someone I love (like my wife and children) and who I feel a sense of obligation and duty to protect at all costs, if I can.
And yes…you make a lot of sense. I thank you for your gentleness with me on this subject, too.
Comment by: Rachel
31 11/15/07 3:06 PM | Comment Link |Randy, I’m pretty sure that Jesus wouldn’t want you to actually shoot off that guy’s kneecaps. But I would 100 million times rather be friends with a guy like you who is filled with righteous rage over a little girl’s suffering than with someone who just didn’t care.
Comment by: Randy
32 11/15/07 5:27 PM | Comment Link |Thanks, Rachel. As someone very wise once said, “I’m not the man I ought to be, and I’m not the man I want to be, but thanks be to God I’m not the man I used to be.”
Amen.
Comment by: Benjamin ady
33 11/15/07 6:00 PM | Comment Link |<blockquote>Randy, I’m pretty sure that Jesus wouldn’t want you to actually shoot off that guy’s kneecaps.</blockquote>
Rachel
I hope it’s not inappropriate to say that this cracked me up. I mean what would give you such an idea? you liberal hippie peacenik.
Comment by: David H
34 11/15/07 9:10 PM | Comment Link |In the spirit of Jesus not shooting kneecaps off: The Greatest Action Adventure Story Ever Told.
Comment by: Benjamin ady
35 11/15/07 9:41 PM | Comment Link |David
thanks for the link. I like it. It’s funny–made me grin largeley.
Comment by: Randy
36 11/15/07 10:09 PM | Comment Link |Ok, I get it, I get it. I won’t shoot anyone’s kneecaps off, I promise.
;-)
Comment by: benjamin ady
37 11/25/07 9:10 PM | Comment Link |Anonymous posted this comment to the same original post over at my personal blog. thought I’d copy and paste it over here.
Comment by: David H
38 11/26/07 10:08 AM | Comment Link |So unfortunate that it was anonymous. One wonders how many foreign countries the poster has visited and, if he has left these hallowed shores, in what capacity.
Perhaps he should have added one other word for your vocabulary lesson, Benjamin. Blind. It goes before loyalty for many people.
Ah, the myth of Pax Americana. Who says we don’t have fairy tales anymore. Perhaps he should read “Confessions of an Economic Hitman” or “When Corporations Rule the World” to gain a fuller understanding of what is actually happening in the world and that the US is as dominated by that agenda as any other government. It isn’t about human rights for all or making everyone free or ending all wars or making the world a better place. It is almost always about money.
The myth of Veterans Day is that the sacrifice of people like your Dad was “for a greater purpose,” as your anonymous poster says. It all depends on how you define greater, I suppose. It wasn’t great for him or you, and based on what I see in the world today it didn’t help much there either. But that is where those who benefit from that sacrifice really hope the blindness will kick in. Without it, they can’t expect so many to make such sacrifices.
Comment by: Rachel
39 11/26/07 8:31 PM | Comment Link |The only problem is that isn’t possible. As Shane Claiborne says, “The world can’t afford the American dream.”
I would also recommend the excellent documentary Why We Fight.
Comment by: David H
40 12/6/07 12:01 PM | Comment Link |An update from Iraq on the refugee situation courtesy of NPR.
It seems that more than 100,000 refugees have returned from Syria to Iraq. The Bush administration is already trumpeting this as proof that the situation in Iraq is returning to normal. But one expert talking to NPR says the difference may be marginal. However, those Iraqis who fled to Syria are the poorest of the poor and they are returning to the continuing uncertainty in Iraq primarily because they simply can’t survive in Syria. The Iraq they are returning to has seen less violence in the past couple of months, but most of the country lacks functioning public schools, full-time electricity, assured safe drinking water, etc. And while markets and shops are re-opening even in the most dangerous neighborhoods, there is still the ever-present threat of violence, as can be attested by this Nov. 28 New York Times story.
Sure, safe is a relative term, but how many of us would feel secure going to the local grocery store after 5 years of that being dangerous just because not so many stores were the sites of attacks for the past couple of months?
Add to that the ongoing political uncertainty in the country and I would judge it unlikely returning refugees are coming back because they believe everything will be fine now. We shall see.
However, this is shaping up to be a big election issue. Republicans, the Bush administration, conservative bloggers are already jumping on the cowardly Democrats. Things are much better now than they were 6 months ago in Iraq. That appears to be true. But in the true nature of U.S. politics, the past and potential future cost to Iraqi citizens is nothing compared to who gets to make political hay of the matter right now.
Comment by: David H
41 12/6/07 12:40 PM | Comment Link |Just an afterthought, the blogger cited as jumping on the Democrats takes pains to point out that Iraq is now a better place than it was under Saddam Hussein. Even if that could be proved, it still remains to be seen if that can be sustained. But the real problem is the conclusion that if this turns out OK in the end, the entire enterprise becomes right. If the end justifies the means, then it doesn’t matter how many lives were lost to lies, stupidity and mistakes; it doesn’t matter that the intelligence was cooked to start the war; nothing matters except that it turned out right in the end. A perfect entree to the next such folly.
For our “leaders” this is a political football. It is all about who can get the most yardage and win the game. For families in this country — and much more so in Iraq — it is life and death. Many who lost loved ones will never believe that the end makes that death right. Many who lost their homes, their jobs, their sense of a place in the world, or their innocence will never believe that anything can make it right.
The end result won’t bring anyone back from the dead. It remains to be seen who among the living will be healed. But it strikes me as the utmost in arrogance for American politicians on both sides to treat this as if the most important issue at hand was who can turn it to best political advantage.