Posted by Joe on: 09.02.2008 /
Granger Community Church is a flippin’ huge megachurch in Indiana. I believe that is a place in the USA, but I’m only a Brit so don’t ask me for any details. Granger is an enthusiastic endorser of the Purpose Driven Church model and has thousands of attendees to their services.
Anyway. They recently did a survey of the people that go to the services. The results are interesting:
57% of attendees do not believe in the authority of the bible.
56% of attendees do not believe that Jesus is the only way to eternal life.
47% of attendees do not believe in salvation by grace.
Perhaps understandably, many detractors have jumped to criticise Granger. I admit to a little wry smile when I think that a church attracting 5,000 attendees a week seems unable to get them to believe in their own basic theology. Given the evangelical tradition which Granger belongs to, I wonder why these people attend (and/or why they answered a survey in this way - maybe they didn’t understand the questions). Maybe there is a minority of people regularly attending the church and a substantial mobile group coming to see what the fuss is all about.
Tim Stevens, ‘executive pastor’ at Granger has a few positive thoughts on this.
When anyone asks me, “How many are in your church?”, I typically answer this way: “That’s a good question, but there are around 5,000 who attend each weekend.” We’ve believed and taught for years that a crowd is not a church. At Granger, we build a weekend experience to draw the biggest crowd possible, because we believe that if more people hear the gospel, more people will respond. But we don’t for a minute believe that a crowd is a church. But we are leaning on Jesus AND working our butts off to turn the crowd into committed congregation of believers who are serving, giving, growing, and inviting their friends to join them on the journey.
The best part of the story for me is the leadership’s solution to the perceived problems, which is so good it almost works as satire.
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Comment by: Helen
1 09/2/08 6:17 AM | Comment Link |I wish they’d asked people why they attend the church.
I read the proposed solution. Bible classes seems to be their main way to address the lack of belief in their doctrines among churchgoers.
They seem to be assuming that if they offer these classes a) the people who don’t believe their basic doctrines will come Wednesday evenings to learn about them and b) once they learn about them they will embrace them.
I wonder if they’re right.
And if they are, I wonder if learning more of the church’s doctrine will cause them to be more involved in their communities and more otherly. Or just, more knowledgeable about doctrine.
Comment by: joe
2 09/2/08 6:34 AM | Comment Link |It seemed to me that the solution involved rearranging meetings - I missed the part about extra bible studies, my bad.
I really liked the part that said:
Comment by: David H
3 09/2/08 9:00 AM | Comment Link |I found the two references to “experiencing God” interesting as well. The other referred to his awesomeness.
I wonder what you do to get people to experience God. I wonder if it is something that can be done on a schedule. I guess they believe God shows up for their services but people don’t recognize he is there. I wonder if they considered at all that it may not be God incognito in their midst but them stopping him at the door.
Comment by: Benjamin
4 09/2/08 3:50 PM | Comment Link |On the one hand, I kind of like the idea of doing a self-check, realizing I am not going the direction I want to go, and adjusting course. So it’s kind of kewl to see a big church doing that.
On the other hand, I … wished they had asked different, “better” questions of themselves, and thus made a somewhat different course correction.
As to experiencing the awe and wonder of God, it strikes me as silly to imagine one can schedule or program that.
Why aren’t they frightened at all? I mean if I knew for sure I was going to really experience the awe and wonder of God at a meeting on Wednesday, I’d make sure not to be there. I’m guessing that if there *is* such a person as one supernatural being somehow fitting all the descriptions of him contained from Genesis to Revelation, then encountering him is a bit terrifying in the extreme. Plus it changes you in unanticipated ways, and you might not like what happens as a result.
Comment by: Staci
5 09/2/08 5:47 PM | Comment Link |I’m not really surprised by the answers. I know of a quite large church in my city that has a doctrine you wouldn’t think would attract large numbers in this area. Many believe they attract large numbers because deep down it is what people really want/know is right. However, it is my experience that many people who attend are knowledgeable of and disagree with the doctrine, but attend because the community feeling is more important to them. They see old friends & meet new ones. They find reliable babysitters. They get involved in community service projects. Their kids connect with a positive group. They see colleagues and clients. There are groups with similar interests and backgrounds. Such regular attendees are not lacking in church knowledge, they have just decided that they don’t have to agree (or publicly disagree) with everything.
I’ve been changing my mind about how I feel about choosing a church in this way. I was rather indignant about attending such a church - and thus seemingly endorsing its beliefs. But lately I’ve been thinking I’ve been too harsh. That its okay, and probably even good, just to be in community for the sake of being in community. Its kind of like public school. I believe in public education even if I don’t always agree with the way it is being done. So I send my child there, but I pay attention to what is taught and supplement when necessary to round things out.
Comment by: martin gugino
6 09/5/08 10:33 AM | Comment Link |The book: “The Almost True Story of Ryan Fisher” is about a gifted car salesman who decides to start a mega church in Oaklahoma. I read most of it in one day, but not all. It was a friend’s library book. Well written and entertaining.
LOL - just read this… I afraid this is true for me as well.
Comment by: Elaine
7 09/7/08 8:15 AM | Comment Link |Staci - I like your analogy of public school and the church.
What I’ve seen in many places is a great hunger for community. An engaged church would be an excellent place to build community for yourself. I like the language of belonging before believing.
As far as the discovery that many of Granger’s church attendees were not 100% sold - I’m not sure I see the problem with that. What would a church look like where 100% of the people believed 100% of the same thing??? Is that even humanly possible? Wouldn’t that be pretty bland and boring?
To turn it around,
43% believe in the authority of the bible
44% believe Jesus is the only way
53% believe in salvation by grace
I think that is the more interesting set of numbers.
The older I get the less “sure” I am that I “know” things to be 100% true. While I have a core set of beliefs, they are being refined as I live life. So, has my understanding of the Bible, God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.
Comment by: Benjamin
8 09/7/08 7:35 PM | Comment Link |Elaine–I love the way you flipped it. I’m totally with you.